Sunday, 7 June 2009

So what’s it like to leave Jesus behind?

I was listening to an audio book recently, God’s Problem by renowned Biblical scholar and former Evangelical Christian, Bart D. Ehrman. As I listened to his words I felt such a resonance with what he wrote. He captures how I felt, how I sometimes still feel, and the issues I face(d) having left Christianity behind.

To my Christian readers, I don’t share this to try to convince you of anything, or to try to deconvert you from your faith. I share it with you just to share it with you.


"People who have gone through a kind of “deconversion” experience like mine understand how emotionally wrenching it can be. It may be easy to have a good sense of humor about it now that I’m well on the other side of the crisis (a friend of mine says that I went from being “born again” to being “dead again”), but at the time it was extremely traumatic. I went from being a hard-core and committed evangelical Christian who had spent his young adulthood in a fundamentalist Bible college, an evangelical liberal arts college, and a number of Bible-believing churches, to being an agnostic who viewed the Bible as a book produced entirely by human hands, who viewed Jesus as a first-century apocalyptic Jew who was crucified but not raised from the dead, and who viewed the ultimate questions of theology as beyond a human’s ability to answer.

"I don’t know if there is a God. I don’t call myself an atheist, because to declare affirmatively that there is no God (the declaration of atheists) takes far more knowledge (and chutzpah) than I have. How would I know if there’s a God? I’m just a mortal like everyone else. I think what I can say is that if (IF!) there is a God, he is not the kind of being that I believed in as an evangelical: a personal deity who has ultimate power over this world and intervenes in human affairs in order to implement his will among us. It is beyond my comprehension that there could be a being like that—in no small part because, frankly, I don’t believe that interventions happen. If God cures cancer, then why do millions die of cancer? If the response is that it is a mystery (“God works in mysterious ways”), that is the same as saying that we do not know what God does or what he is like. So why pretend we do? If God feeds the hungry, why are people starving? If God takes care of his children, why are thousands of people destroyed by natural disasters every year? Why does the majority of the earth’s population suffer in abject poverty?

"I no longer believe in a God who is actively involved with the problems of this world. But I used to believe in a God of that sort with all my heart and soul, and I was willing and eager to tell everyone around me all about him. My faith in Christ made me an amateur evangelist, one determined to convert others to belief as well. But now I’ve deconverted. And I have to say, the deconversion process was not easy or pleasant. As I pointed out in an earlier chapter, I left the faith kicking and screaming.

"But what can else could I do? What can you, or anyone else, do when you’re confronted with facts (or, at least, with what you take to be facts) that contradict your faith? I suppose you could discount the facts, say they don’t exist, or do your best to ignore them. But what if you are absolutely committed to being true to yourself and to your understanding of the truth? What if you want to approach your belief with intellectual honesty and to act with personal integrity? I think all of us—even those of us who are agnostics—have to be willing to change our views if we come to think they were wrong after all. But doing so can be very painful.

"The pain for me was manifest in lots of ways. One of the hardest things was that I was now at odds with many of those who were near and dear to me—members of my family and close friends—people with whom I had once shared an intimate spiritual bond, with whom I could, before, pray and talk about the big questions of life and death with the full assurance that we were all on the same page. Once I left the faith, that no longer happened, and friends and family started treating me with suspicion, wondering what was wrong with me, why I had changed, why I had “gone over to the dark side.” Many of them, I suppose, thought that I had learned too much for my own good, or had opened myself up to the snares of the devil. It’s not easy being intimate with someone who thinks you’re in cahoots with Satan.

"Probably the hardest thing for me to deal with personally involved the very core of what I had believed as an evangelical Christian. I had become “born again” because I wanted “to be saved.” Saved from what? Among other things, from the eternal torments of hell. In the view that was given to me, Christ had died for the sins of the world, and anyone who accepted him in faith would have eternal life with him in heaven. All those who did not believe in him—whether out of wilful refusal or sheer ignorance—would necessarily have to pay for their own sins in hell. Hell was a well-populated place: most people went there. And hell was a place of everlasting torment, which involved the spiritual agony of being separated from God (and hence, all that is good) and the physical agony of real torment in an eternal lake of fire. Roasting in hell was, for me, not a metaphor but a physical reality. No wonder I was so evangelistic in my faith: I didn’t want any of my family or friends to experience the fires of hell for all eternity, and so I did everything I could to make sure they accepted Christ and received the free gift of salvation.

"This view of hell was driven into me and deeply burned, so to say, onto my consciousness (and, probably, my unconscious). As a result, when I fell away from my faith—not just in the Bible as God’s inspired word, but in Christ as the only way of salvation, and eventually from the view that Christ was himself divine, and beyond that from the view that there is an all-powerful God in charge of this world—I still wondered, deep down inside: could I have been right after all? What if I was right then but wrong now? Will I burn in hell forever? The fear of death gripped me for years, and there are still moments when I wake up at night in a cold sweat.

"All of this is rooted in a sense of suffering, of course. The evangelical theology I had once held was built on views of suffering: Christ suffered for my sins, so that I would not have to suffer eternally, because God is a righteous judge who punishes for all time those who reject him and the salvation that he has provided. The irony, I suppose, is that it was precisely my view of suffering that led me away from this understanding of Christ, salvation, and God. I came to think that there is not a God who is actively involved with this world of pain and misery—if he is, why doesn’t he do something about it? Concomitantly, I came to believe that there is not a God who is intent on roasting innocent children and others in hell because they didn’t happen to accept a certain religious creed."

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Taken from chapter five of God’s Problem: How the Bible Fails to Answer Our Most Important Question—Why We Suffer by Bart D. Ehrman, published by HarperCollins.

Thursday, 26 April 2007

Why Won't God Heal Amputees?

This website makes an interesting assertion. What would happen if all Christians started praying for amputees to regrow lost limbs?

No matter how many people pray. No matter how sincere those people are. No matter how much they believe. No matter how devout and deserving the recipient. Nothing will happen. The legs will not regenerate. Prayer does not restore the severed limbs of amputees. You can electronically search through all the medical journals ever written -- there is no documented case of an amputated leg being restored spontaneously. And we know that God ignores the prayers of amputees through our own observations of the world around us. If God were answering the prayers of amputees to regenerate their lost limbs, we would be seeing amputated legs growing back every day.

Click the pic above to visit the site.

I Joined the Atheist Blogroll

I recently nailed my colours to the mast and joined the Atheist Blogroll.

On to Hell folks! LOL!!!


Join the best atheist themed blogroll!



Saturday, 7 April 2007

Losing Faith: How Scholarship Affects Scholars

Biblical Archaeology Review have an article about 4 scholars and how their vocation affected their faith. They note Bart Ehrman's journey from faith to non-faith.

Thursday, 5 April 2007

Newsweek: "Is God Real?" and "The God Debate"

The April 7th, 2007 edition of Newsweek ran a few articles about Atheism and Christianity in the USA. Both articles listed here are worth a read no matter what side of the fence you hang out at.

Is God Real?


Detail Michelangelo's Sistine Chapel via Web Gallery of Art




God Debate: Sam Harris vs. Rick Warren


The Great Divide: Atheist Sam Harris (right) and evangelist Rick Warren (left) meet to discuss religion and faith in America at Warren's Saddleback Church in California

Barry Smith's Books

If you haven't read my first post about Barry Smith then do so here before you continue reading this post.

I think the funniest thing about Smith's books, at least the first four, are the titles. They all sound so final, and then the next one sounds more final than the last. Smith really did believe he was living in the last days. You don't really don't need to buy all his books to show how loopy Barry Smith was as there are some collections of his bullshit online here and here. The best one is his claim that Jesus would return by the year 2000 (here).

I'll post the original publishing date of each book and an assortment of some of the more freaky chapter titles and headings. You can click on the book cover to go to Smith's own website which gives a more detailed table of contents list.

First Published: 1980
Does The Bible Speak Of The E.E.C.?/ The E.E.C. Leader's Reign/ Galloping Inflation/ Cash Cancelled/ The Five "I Wills" of Satan/ The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion/ The Illuminati/ The Seal of the Illuminati - On The US Dollar/ The Club of Rome/ The Russian Revolution and the Zionist State of Israel/ Christianity Under Attack/ Postscript to the Mystery of Iniquity: Freemasonry





First Published: 1985
Cash Will Crash In A Flash/ Back to The Club Of Rome/ Danger Famine Ahead/ Kissinger Capers/ Ivan Panin Proves Authority of Bible/ Law Systems Become Corrupt/ The Seal on the US $1/ The Plan Behind the Seal/ Education and New Age/ World Government Will Confiscate Guns, Ammunition and Communications Equipment/ Who is the God of Freemasonry?/ British Royal Family Envolvement/ Dangers to the Law System/ The World Church/ The Occult, Witchcraft, Tea Cup and Palm Reading, Divination/ Homosexuality/ Compulsive Gambling, Drug Taking, Tobacco, Alcohol/ Soap Operas/ Stages of Musical Disintegration/ Plastic Cards/


First Published: 1989
Noah's Ark Found/ 666 has arrived/ Where the Big Crash Will Start/ Undermining of Nations Sovereignty/ Mystery of Iniquity/ Henry Kissingers Role in Peace/ Prototype for E.C. 1992/ Illuminati History/ World Domination Aim/ The Protocols/ Link-up Pope John 23rd, R.C. and Mafia/ Cash - The Last Bastion of Privacy/ Spying on Christians/ A False Nuclear Threat/ A False Greenhouse Effect (Ozone Deception)/ The World's Population Needs to be Cut Down/ Aim to Bring Alternative Lifestyle People Out of the Bush and Control All Others/ The Aids Cover-up/ Overthrow of New Zealand Sovereignty/ Others Can Spy Too/ Commos Are Such Nice People/ Reason for USSR Strength/ A Demonic Spirit Controls All Unions/ The U.S.A. in World Government Plans/ Computerization Equals Bondage

First Published: 1992
Communism Not Dead/ Aids Created by Man/ Nuclear Scam/ Japanese Real Estate Collapse/ Masonic Symbols in Washington's Streets/ Mason's Say 'Lucifer is God'/ Methods to Ruin Each Sector of Society/ Small Business to Shut Down/ E.C. to Control All Trade/ Global Army/ One World Religion/ Silicon Chips - Microdots/ Trapped in Your Own Home/ Why go to Hell?





First Published: 1996
These chapter titles seem to be much like the last book.








First Published: 1998
South East Asia Ready for the High Jump/ The Berlin Wall/ What About Great Britain?/ All Countries are Linked in Trouble/ Goodbye China/ The U.S. Role in the Conspiracy/ The Kabalah/ America is Run by the Devil/ The Russian Invasion of Israel/ The Millennium Bug/ The Great Pyramid of Giza







First Published: 1999
Proof of a Conspiracy/ The Illuminati and America the Horrible/ The Illuminati Chooses U.S. Presidents/ The Y2K Bug/ Come Back Henry Kissinger








OK, so it all sounds really, really kooky. You may be wondering how I ever got sucked in by something so whacky. Well, that's the million dollar question really isn't it? I was young, and impressionable I guess. I also (wrongly) put a lot of trust in those in authority in the Pentecostal scene. Smith is also, like most end-times conspiracy preachers, very good at collecting facts, half-truths and complete bullshit and putting them all together with just enough spin to make it say whatever he wants it all to say. Remember, not all that he says is crap, just most of it and definitely the conclusions he draws. A lot of what he says is not verifiable as he claims 'indier information' at times. Let's just hope I learned some valuable lessons about verifying the claims of others, too easily accepting 'expert' opinions from less-than-experts, and blindly following people.

There is no doubt about it, this end-times nonsense is really that, pure nonsense. Smith and guys like him repeatedly get it wrong or at best, take current events (not future events) and position them onto their doctrines of Bible prophecy. In other words they have a revisionist view of Bible prophecy (it sounds like an oxymoron because it is!). They rarely get any of their predictions right and erroneous predictions are quickly forgotten. For the last 2000 years or so, none of them have seen Jesus return yet!

Barry Smith

Back in my AOG days, there was one End-Times preacher who was both well-known and well able to draw sizable crowds to his meetings whenever he visited Australia. He was a New Zealand AOG preacher named Barry Smith. Most of us had either read one of Smith's books, watched his video tapes or been to a meeting.

While I never immersed myself in Smith's teachings, though many did, his stuff had enough of an impact on me to warrant a post here. In fact, back around 1991 or 1992 I watched one of his videos which predicted 'the Lord' might return by 1996. Of course Smith was careful to word this prediction right so as not to make it sound like he knew 'the day or hour'. Nevertheless, my friend and I both commented that there was no point living as if this world had long to go. In other words, it effected the way we lived and planned for the future. There is no doubt that his End-Times nonsense instilled some irrational fear in me that had to be later dealt with.

Well everyone has 20/20 vision in hindsight and I now realise that Smith was full of shit. He was, quite simply, a religious conspiracy theorist. I don't believe Smith was a con-man or anything. I think Smith really believed what he preached which makes it worse really as it means he was simply a nutter. One person summed up Barry and one of his last books as 'a hotchpotch and steaming mish-mash of paranoiac confusion'.

I seriously considered buying his books and going through them to see how many of his prophecies fell flat or how much of his material is based on paranoid conspiracy nonsense. I may still do this, but for now I will just post some of the chapter headings of his books and a few comments along the way. That post can be found here.

By the way, Barry Smith is dead. Yes, even he didn't live to see the imminent return of Jesus. "He's coming soon." Not soon enough for Barry it seems.